Church
Many of you know our history with church. To make a long story short: we were part of a church for five years, leadership changed, we stayed for four more years, and then we left. (You can read in more detail here – part 1 and here – part 2.) After we left that church, we attended another congregation for four or five months – long enough to get a real feel and know that it probably isn’t the place for us, either. We have visited a couple other churches and have a couple more to visit in the next few weeks.
At the end of last year, I received an e-mail from my brother-in-law Hans with a good idea for a blog post. It especially hit me because of the situation we are in right now – churchless. Hans is studying to be a pastor – as you will see by how well he expresses himself. I can’t put his thoughts down any better than he can, so here’s the e-mail I received from him, verbatim:
Intro: Below is a list of things that churches do (in varying degrees) that contribute to the growth and flourishing of those in the congregation:
1. Preach the Word in such a way that:
~ Honors the meaning of the text being preached on.
~ Explains clearly how the believer can apply to their lives the truths that are spoken.
~ Cultivates a greater hunger in the believer for the Word of God.
~ Causes the believer to long to entrust more of themselves to God.
~ Causes the believer to have an expectation that they will hear from God through the proclamation of the Word.2. Worship in such a way that:
~ Compels the believer to worship God by transforming: their affections / actions towards God; their affections / actions towards one another.3. Help the believers in the church to exercise their spiritual gifts.
The above list could go on an definitely be refined – but you get the idea.
Questions worth blogging about:
1. How does a believer in the local church flourish in a setting in which one or more of the above elements is absent?
2. Why should a believer even want to make the effort to flourish in a setting in which one or more of the above elements is absent?
Ground rules for an answer:
1. The solutions that one gives to the above two questions cannot be considered as legitimate solutions if they contribute to a growing alienation between you and any other member of the body of Christ.
2. There is a growing alienation between you and (the preacher / musician, etc) if you are unable to join with them in a ministry relationship that produces God-glorifying fruit.
Here’s the reply I sent:
Have you been listening in on our conversations lately? ~grin~ Kevin and I have been discussing this very thing lately as we continue in our quest to find a new church. You have given me much to think about, and talk to Kevin about, before I can attempt to write about it. I will blog on this, though, when I’m not too dizzy from baking Christmas cookies and hot-glue-gunning Christmas ornaments. I’ll send you a link when I do!
Then before I had a chance to write or think about it much, he got back to me with this:
Hi Carrie,
Following is one of the habits that I have started to form:Situation: Do you ever hear sermons in which the preacher states a whole bunch of true things that we should do? However, it seems as though the preacher was unable to point to specific ways / situations in your life in which you could apply the truths that were spoken?
It is kinda like seeing a skeleton without flesh – there’s good structure in the bones (true things are being spoken), but there is a shortage of flesh (application).
Habit: One of the things that I have tried to start doing is converse with Marni about the truths that were spoken. Then we discuss how we might apply the particular truths to our own life. We also talk about how we could contextualize the truths to the various people around us (whether believer or unbeliever).
One of the reasons that this exercise can be really helpful is that there are times when we are preparing bible studies or messages and we are stuck at the truth stage. We know that we want to say certain things that are true, but we are unsure of how to apply the truths to the situations that our audience is facing.
Or, we don’t feel that we have cultivated a hunger in our audience to the extent that they would want to hear what we have to say. John Stott has a fine remark along these lines regarding sermon introductions that need to arouse an interest in the hearers:
“Mourners do not fall asleep when the will is being read, if they expect to be beneficiaries of it, nor do prisoners go to sleep while the judge is summing up and their life or freedom are at stake.”
-John Stott in Between Two Worlds: The Challenge of Preaching Today, pg.279
And I replied with this:
That is a good habit to get into – discussing the sermons with each other, I mean. I think that’s why we like listening to Driscoll’s sermons together at home, we get into some great discussions and it sinks in deeper than it would if we listened separately.
Our problem right now is this: the church we left last spring did fine leading people into worship and allowing people to use their gifts, but the pastor was preaching unbiblical things. Not salvation-issue points, but many things that he said were actually anti-biblical, or else he would preach his point as biblical fact when in reality it was an assumption or personal interpretation. He also abused his position as pastor to bully people on the board and finance committee (as well as other committees) to always get things his own way. So after two years of praying, talking, frustration, etc. – we left.
We started attending the local Calvary Chapel congregation, where we attended for several months. We liked the atmosphere and the people, and for the most part agreed with the teaching from a theological perspective. There were some differences of opinion on eschatology, but we’ll probably find that anywhere we go, so no biggie. But there were still some major hindrances:
~We left each Sunday feeling like we would’ve gotten more out of the passage of Scripture that the pastor preached on by reading it and discussing it at home on our own. The teaching was not very deep – the pastor is definitely not a reader and study-er. I’m not saying he’s not smart, but we left hungry for more.
~The worship music was very high-quality, but seemed more like a performance than a worship service. There were many new songs almost every Sunday, and it was extremely difficult to enter into worship.
~There was no obvious place for us to get involved and minister. This probably wasn’t as big an issue to Kevin as it was to me. The same person and team led worship every Sunday – no variations. There was no special music. I was left to wonder what the rest of the people in the congregation who were gifted musically were supposed to do. I know I wasn’t the only one – I overheard a conversation where two other people were discussing their desire to minister in music (not lead, just be on the team), but that when they approached the subject, they were told that worship was already taken care of or there wasn’t room on the team for them.
So. Three major points, all strikes against this church. And yet, we have not found another place to worship yet. We have visited some other congregations, but nothing so far. One had open tongues and interpretation during the service, which Kevin is not comfortable with at all. The “tongues” and “interpretation” given were very general – nothing specific. This has always struck me more as the person’s zeal rather than a direct message from God. I could be wrong. My Dad mentioned a service he was in when someone stood up and gave a message in tongues and it turned out that he was speaking in Eskimo, and there was a visting Eskimo woman who interpreted the message and it was specifically for her situation. That, to me, is what tongues is for. Not a general “God is encouraging us today” message – He tells us that through His Word, through the preaching of the Word, through the hymns, etc. Again, this could be my own personal bias, but I try to keep an open mind within Biblical guidelines.
The other church I visited was beginning a new women’s “Bible” study using a book that I believe is unbiblical – I have read the book myself, and it counsels women who are being physically abused by their husbands (or where the children were being physically or sexually abused) to stay in the home in the name of submission. Now, I would never advise a woman in this situation to divorce – God hates divorce – but I would believe it completely biblical for her to remove herself and her children to a place of safety until their was discipline – whether through the church or the legal system – and proof of repentance and change in her husband’s life. Once I saw that this was the book they were using and calling it a “Bible study” – I did not feel this would be a good fit either.
This Sunday one of us will be visiting Grace Evangelical Free. One of us visits first, because the kids were so attached to the Free Methodist, and beginning to get attached at Calvary Chapel, and so we are trying to get a better idea of the situation before we bring the kids along. So at home, I continue to do Bible study with the kids (which happens all the time anyway) and we wait and hope that we will find a fit. After Grace, there are really only two other churches we believe are possibilities: Colville Christian Church and Colville Church of God. I don’t know much about either congregation, but we’re open. And getting desparate at this point!
Kevin and I have talked about this more, and came up with a fourth point in the list of things churches should do to contribute to a flourishing congregation: fellowship. We mean opportunities for people to come together without a service or program being involved – time for talking and building relationships, i.e. potlucks, game nights, softball teams, etc.
So, blog readers, I would now love to get some input from you. Comments about Hans’ list, answers to his questions, stories – good, bad, or indifferent – of your own church experiences. Tell me how you found the church you are currently in and how you knew it was the church home for you. I also know that some of my readers have given up on church for one reason or another – although they still follow Christ with all their hearts. I’d love to hear your stories and thoughts, too. You can leave a comment, or, if your story is too personal but you would still like to share, you can e-mail me at nnjmom at yahoo dot com.





















































Carrie, I am right there with you on that 4th point. That is where we have been sorely lacking since we moved to CA. The culture here is so different than what we are used to in the Midwest; there, being with others in your church family was at times other than the traditional worship times was just natural and expected. Out here, it is nearly nonexistent.
We have just let the folks at our current church know that we will be looking for a place closer to home after the end of the month. The 40-minute drive (42 miles) has just made it impossible to build relationships… although there is a part of me that thinks even if we lived in the neighborhood, it wouldn’t be much better. We’ll have to look outside of our church of origin (churches of Christ) and into some of the other non-denominational/Christian churches nearby.
I’m just not looking forward to starting all over again.
January 11th, 2007 at 11:34 pmWow!
This is an amazing post, Carrie.
The church my family currently attends is a huge church. I’ve always attended big churches since I was a baby. This is the 3rd one. I don’t consider it my church home yet, even though we’ve been attending for a couple-three years.
One thing that all of the big churches I’ve attended to encourage “fellowship” amongst the thousands of people in the congregation is to encourage small-group Bible studies that meet in someone’s home every so often (weekly, monthly, every other week, etc).
We’re currently in a small group with several families from our church and a couple of families from the church I grew up in, and a couple of families from the church my family attended before this one.
One of the nice things about my city, is that most of the big churches all realize they have the same goal – they might do things a little differently, but they all work together when the need arises and don’t consider each other “competition”.
I left my first church because I thought it was getting too big and impersonal (this was almost 20 years ago), and then I was unchurched until after Rubi and I got married and decided to have kids. Then we picked a church that, when I was a kid, I thought was too big and I had been intimidated by it – but I tried it for Rubi – and we really liked it and got involved in small groups there too.
Something happened a few years ago there to Rubi’s sister, as well as the basic church direction, that made Rubi decide to look at moving to a different church so we tried the one were at now.
It’s currently in upheaval, no senior pastor (or main pastor, or head pastor, whatever).
… I forgot where I was going with this.
All the churches have encouraged people to use their spiritual gifts – at least now they do – my first church (and Christian school) actually discouraged me – another reason I left.
My first church was non-denominational, my second church called itself “Evangelical” but was pretty much non-denominatiol, and our current church is pretty much non-denominational – I haven’t heard them call themselves any particular denomination. So when people ask me what denomination I am – I say I’m a generic white-label Christian.
January 13th, 2007 at 4:34 pmKaren – I’m sorry you’re going to be in the ‘looking for a church’ boat again – I know how glad you were when you found this one after you moved. I hope you find one closer to home that is (as close to as possible) perfect for your family.
Kev – I’ve always avoided big churches for the reason that it’s harder to get “plugged in”. Our kids are involved with Tae Kwon Do two nights a week and Ballet one night a week, so adding a weekly small group meeting gives me the shakes. But that may be what we need to do to really feel like a part of a church – when we find one, of course!
January 13th, 2007 at 5:49 pmI have thought about this for a couple of days before replying. Personally, I prefer a smaller church. Mainly because we have special issues with Emily. The more people… The more music… Causes her to have a meltdown. That makes it not an enjoyable experience for any of us. Sometimes it is hard to maintain regular attendance with my own health issues as well. I love to go to a church that makes you feel welcome every time you walk through the door. One where you feel the prescence of God immediately. In the building itself, and in the people there. I like a service where everyone is “like-minded”. That the whole purpose for being there is to worship… Not to gossip. Where sinners can come hear the word and not be treated as being on the outside looking in. I love to hear the word in the WORD… Not a message based on popular opinion. I think a good message should feed the sheep… Not leave them starving, but hungry for more! I love to hear testimony. Both spoken and in song… In a service that lets the Lord have His way in His time… That no one is clock watching. What is known as worship music is fine, but I love me some old time hymn singing! I believe that a child of God is a child of God no matter what name man may place over the door. Am I attending a church where I feel He has led me right now? Yes. Would I go somewhere else if He led me there? Yes. Was I any help at all? *Grin*
January 14th, 2007 at 7:35 amLisa – I’m glad you are where you’re supposed to be!
January 15th, 2007 at 7:58 am“I’ve always avoided big churches for the reason that it’s harder to get “plugged in”. Our kids are involved with Tae Kwon Do two nights a week and Ballet one night a week, so adding a weekly small group meeting gives me the shakes. But that may be what we need to do to really feel like a part of a church – when we find one, of course! ”
You’ll find the right church for your family eventually. One where you, your husband, and your kids all can feel at home.
January 16th, 2007 at 7:09 pmKev – thanks for the encouragement; I really appreciate it.
January 16th, 2007 at 8:11 pm